Author Topic: BASIC  (Read 62580 times)

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2018, 11:13:27 PM »
Quote from: AIR
Code challenges that might have real world application are going to be more complex than trivial crap like the Floyd Triangle.


The point of a SB Floyd's Triangle was to explain to Tomaaz that one line of multiple statements desn't always mean less code. The other lesson was just because SB is an interpreter, it holds its own against compiled alternatives.

Offline AIR

  • BASIC Developer
  • Posts: 932
  • Coder
Re: BASIC
« Reply #61 on: October 20, 2018, 11:31:33 PM »
The point of a SB Floyd's Triangle was to explain to Tomaaz that one line of multiple statements desn't always mean less code. The other lesson was just because SB is an interpreter, it holds its own against compiled alternatives.

I'm not knocking your solution, it was pretty elegant in it's simplicity.

My point is, how applicable is that to a real world scenario?  How would SB fare in solving a more complex real world programming challenge? Other than Peter, I think you're the only other person who could provide examples at this point.  Am I egging you on a bit?  Guilty. 

I'm not saying do the wordsearch challenge; what I AM saying is show how SB would make a typical programming problem easier to solve.  At the end of the day, I use whichever language makes it easiest to achieve a required goal. Sometimes it's an interpreted (scripting) language, other times compiled.  But even though I've been around SB a bit, and even though I've gone through it's guts at times, I've never used it as you do.  I've always had other options, and used them instead.

So I'm asking you to share some stuff that is applicable in a real world programming scenario, and show what SB can actually DO to make my life as a coder easier....

AIR.

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2018, 12:15:50 AM »
I think what I doing with interfacing with VB6 OCX forms as intelligent UI objects is a step up from Floyd.

Offline AlyssonR

  • Advocate
  • Posts: 131
Re: BASIC
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2018, 02:12:48 AM »
I think what I doing with interfacing with VB6 OCX forms as intelligent UI objects is a step up from Floyd.

Maybe so, and I am very interested, but it is a bit too esoteric for most - and it might smack a bit of of filling in failings in the language.

Unfortunately, a toolbox language is unlikely to win any arguments against people who are keen on big-front-end languages and their own favourite tool-box languages.

Coding challenges are a reasonable way of comparing languages but, IMHO, the challenges tend to either be excessively simplistic (Floyd triangle) or overly complex (chess solver, a traditional challenge class). I find them rather tedious, and the religious wars arising to be ... irritating.

The traditional example applications (in a fairly random order) used to be:-
  • A simple accounting program (MS continued this with their Northwind exemplars)
  • A Tic-Tac-Toe game
  • A Chess game
  • Calculation of prime numbers
  • A simple "expert" system
  • Colossal Cave (AKA Hobbit, AKA Adventure, AKA ....)
  • Hello World
These all show off some aspect of the language to the prospective user though they are, admittedly, rather unexciting.

To my mind, the most useful examples are programs that contain some useful, reusable code that can be compared for speed and efficiency (like sorting routines, simple database operations like "find in file filename.asc", Simple user I/O routines etc.) and where aesthetics may be considered (screen handling, user interface etc.).

But, there again, I don't program for fun - I program for a purpose, and use whichever tool meets my needs best. Right now, that is a combo of SB and VB6.

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2018, 02:25:53 AM »
The Vintage BASIC interpreter has tons of examples and games. Most will port to SB with little effort. (line numbers and all)

I know where SB works for me. Getting that message across to others has done nothing but generated bitterness and calling Script BASIC spam.


Offline AlyssonR

  • Advocate
  • Posts: 131
Re: BASIC
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2018, 02:37:40 AM »
I think he's just a bit linguistic identity confused ;)
 
... or, he could just be trolling a bit.

I know that most examples translate fairly easily, but ultimately, games are not a lot of use to me.

Like you, I know where SB is appropriate to use and, more importantly, where it is not (currently, that is).

Unfortunately, when any of us get into discussions about programming languages then people tend to defend their religious icons vigorously, disregarding the actual words used, points made or actual usage posture of the language - even though it is like comparing the DBase III language with Algol - they exist for different purposes.

Frankly, I don't believe that programming fora are the place for promoting serious tools anymore. I'm not sure where is, either. Part of the problem is that every man and his dog has written their own version of BASIC (or whatever) - and of such varying quality that it is impossible to sift through them.

Oh, and I think that Tomaaz is trying to find CUMaC - a language that included elements of a whole bunch of langauges and achieved my award for "The Worst Programming Language Ever".

Offline AIR

  • BASIC Developer
  • Posts: 932
  • Coder
Re: BASIC
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2018, 04:51:15 AM »
I think he's just a bit linguistic identity confused ;)
 
... or, he could just be trolling a bit.

...Or in showing how other languages approach a given problem, possibly nudge BASIC language developers to incorporate things into their respective offerings that makes coding easier overall...

AIR.

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2018, 09:40:04 AM »
Why on a retro Basic and game site? Paul is the only developer there. If it isn't Z80 based, he has little interest.

Offline AIR

  • BASIC Developer
  • Posts: 932
  • Coder
Re: BASIC
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2018, 09:46:36 AM »
You're not accounting for any "lurkers" in the crowd.  I, for instance, check that forum regularly (never was approved for an account, but that's another story...LOL)

AIR.

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2018, 12:07:14 PM »
Quote from: Tomaaz@RetroB
When I was registered there, it was dead. Now, AIR's posting examples in Bash, Python, Ruby, Nim... And this place here is... dead. Guys, why can't we have one forum for everything?  ;D

Use the right forum for the challenge.  8)

AIR's challenge wasn't hobby programming related.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:55:27 PM by John »

Offline AIR

  • BASIC Developer
  • Posts: 932
  • Coder
Re: BASIC
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2018, 04:42:58 PM »
I knew Tomaaz was lurking!!!  Glad I was right!!! ;D

I've always enjoyed his code offerings...and his humor!

BTW, I posted my code in various languages in the OPEN forum section to show how each could implement a solution.  I was hoping that some of the members here could chime in with how their favorite BASIC or other language could do the same.  Any takers?  Please improve my code where needed; even though I can cover several different languages, I'm always looking to improve!!

AIR.


Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2018, 05:07:57 PM »
Quote
BTW, I posted my code in various languages in the OPEN forum section to show how each could implement a solution.  I was hoping that some of the members here could chime in with how their favorite BASIC or other language could do the same.  Any takers?  Please improve my code where needed; even though I can cover several different languages, I'm always looking to improve!!

What's ahead for All BASIC is a new board for multi-language code challenges and a local copy of GitLab CE for established members as a repository sandbox.

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2018, 06:43:12 PM »
Quote from: Tomaaz@RetroB
ZeroBrane Studio

OK. Why wasn't I using it? This is a fantastic IDE for Lua. It comes with easy to use graphics libraries (with tons of examples) and support for projects like LOVE or Corona. I'm definitely familiar with the name, but I didn't know it was so good.

Website - https://studio.zerobrane.com/

When I saw the Lua reference I assumed the IDE was built using IUP. Too bad it's not or I could have used it.  :'(

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2018, 03:31:08 PM »
It is refreshing to be a member of a forum with bright people and not be focused on fighting and bitterness.

Offline John

  • Forum Support / SB Dev
  • Posts: 3597
    • ScriptBasic Open Source Project
Re: BASIC
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2018, 08:19:31 PM »
Quote from: B+@RetroB
The problem is in the nuklear code library for circle drawing with lines:

How circles are done.

SDL_gfx