Author Topic: 2013 Linux for Newbies  (Read 11122 times)

kryton9

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2013 Linux for Newbies
« on: October 08, 2013, 08:24:08 PM »
Background:
I consider myself a linux newbie, although since around 1998 for each year I have tried different linux distros to see if it could replace Windows.
I bought "Red Hat" when it was sold in a box at the stores and then later-- I think it was just called "Suse", in a box. While fun to play with
for me it wasn't a game changer.

The game changer came out when a few years back I tried Ubuntu. The only thing that stopped it being a window killer was driver support
and pc games.

But since last year, that is no longer the case with drivers, at least for Ubuntu and its derivatives. But what killed it was the early version of Unity.
But even that this year is pretty nice and with their efforts to go multiple devices from phones, tablets to pc's it was a cool move.
But as an avid pc gamer, Windows could not be replaced.

So here we are in the later half of 2013 and things have changed quite a bit. Valve has released its Steam game distribution system for Linux.
Is in the process of releasing a gaming pc like box that is based on linux to be hooked up to your TV's.
Ubuntu is developing a new graphic subsystem that is supposed to be very nice for graphics card developers to support.

Windows 8, at least in my circle of local acquaintances is a big loser and has turned numerous people into Apple users, or had them take
their new hardware back to the stores and stick with their windows 7 based older systems.

Linux Distros:
I have been trying a lot of the various popular linux distros listed on DistroWatch.com.
Most recently: Ubuntu, Debian, Linux Mint, Fedora, Arch and Manjaro.
Some with various desktops.

My Netbook:
I am currently doing my programming on my Acer Aspire 722 netbook. It is a dual core 1gHz AMD All Purpose Unit(APU) C-60 processor.
I maxed the RAM to 4GB.

VirtualBox:
Using VirtualBox running on my Windows 7, all of the distros worked fine. But with my hardware, just too slow to be practical for compiling
programs constantly.  Thumbs up for the current VirtualBox, I was really impressed.

So now onto installing directly into a dual boot scenario:
All of the Ubuntu and its based derivatives could see my hardware perfectly, from the wireless broadcom network card to my webcam and sound.

Non Ubuntu, but Debian based distros could not use my wireless network card and even when I installed the firmware drivers manually and could see other wireless networks in my area
they could not connect to my wireless router.

The only non Debian based distro I tried was Fedora and it too could not see my wireless card nor could I get it setup to work.
So the winner here is Ubuntu and its Derivatives, they see everything and work great. Even better than my Windows 7 when installed fresh.

Ubuntu:
Ubuntu with Unity, very nice. Some quirks with Unity in that the single menu bar at the top sometimes covers text put their by Dash for example.
But Ubuntu with Unity is just slow on my netbook. Noticeably slower than when I am in Windows 7.

Linux Mint 15 Olivia with XCFE:
I ended up with Linux Mint 15 Olivia xcfe edition. It is a lot faster than Ubuntu Unity or the default Linux Mint Desktop Cinnamon or Mate.
It has an incredible start button like menu system named Whisper. He shows this cool feature at the 2:30 time mark and on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Zqh7TaqtE

I still don't think it is as fast as Windows 7, but pretty darn close. And I have not optimized my settings yet in my Olivia xcfe install.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHRGo-djXks

Manjora:
I will use this install now to learn Linux once and for all and then I think the future is going to be something
like what Arch linux is doing.  This distro will be my next install and hopefully last because of its design
of rolling releases. It is a distro based on Arch Linux.
http://manjaro.org/
It comes with versions for all the popular light desktops, at least that is all I was looking at:
OpenBox, xcfe and lxde.


Future looks bright indeed for Linux:
I think Mark Shuttleworth with Canonical have really helped the Linux world move faster along
towards a mainstream OS.  Their coming out with a new release every six months really got the ball rolling.

Then their efforts to write device drivers when device manufacturers balked was another big step.
His vision for a new interface that can work on all sized devices is something overlooked with Unity.

Mir:
And this new graphics subsystem they are developing, is going to be huge and long overdue.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ0NzA

I think the Arch Linux team bringing rolling releases to the linux world is another big step.

Valve and Steam:
And lastly a major player in the pc games world like Valve, with its incredible and popular game distribution system Steam
jumping head first into Linux is huge!
http://steamforlinux.com/

I thank John for pushing me and others to switch to Linux on various forums. I think now the linux world
is finally getting to a real state where it can be a Windows replacement for all users.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 08:56:18 PM by kryton9 »

Offline John

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 10:16:22 PM »
Quote
Ubuntu with Unity, very nice. Some quirks with Unity in that the single menu bar at the top sometimes covers text put their by Dash for example.

This may be IUP specific but I use the classic Gnome shell and not Unity and if I don't set the following environmental variable, Ubuntu reduces the sized of the displayed window thinking there isn't a need for a menu bar because Unity centralizes it. Give it a try and see if it solves any of your Unity (not in use) issues.

export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0

kryton9

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 11:21:14 PM »
Thanks John will keep that in mind when I install Ubuntu again. Right now I do like Mint with xfce on this netbook. Seems to be a nice match for my hardware performance wise.

On another note, when I did a device manager scan, it came up with broadcom wireless driver and also a driver from AMD for my video.
When I enabled both, the broadcom drivers caused the same problem as I had with other distros, like Fedora and Debian.
What is funny is that the wireless card sees other wireless connections but refuses to connect to my router. But when I use the drivers that come from Ubuntu and its derivatives everything works fine.  The AMD grlfx driver does work, although device manager recommended the x11 based driver.

I am going to install wine and see how well the opengl test app runs compared to the windows version. In VirtualBox, running Wine it was around 12 to 14 fps. Will update this post with fps running directly and not in virtualbox, but under Wine.


Offline John

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 11:31:22 PM »
Sounds like you're making great progress and becoming multi-OS efficient.

kryton9

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Windows App to MultiBoot from USB Thumbdrive
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 08:30:14 PM »
This is something cool I came across. It allows you to multi-boot from a usb thumbdrive!
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/

Offline John

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Windows App to MultiBoot from USB disk drive
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 08:44:35 PM »
Kent,

I would be more interested in a way to boot multiple OSs from my 99.9% empty 4TB USB drive. Will this software work with USB disk drives as well as USB thumb drives? (flash memory)

John

After a quick search, I think I found what I'm looking for.

UNetbootin

Quote
UNetbootin allows you to create bootable Live USB drives for Ubuntu, Fedora, and other Linux distributions without burning a CD. It runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X. You can either let UNetbootin download one of the many distributions supported out-of-the-box for you, or supply your own Linux .iso file if you've already downloaded one or your preferred distribution isn't on the list.

Update

Well that doesn't seem to work. It can't find either of my USB drives. The old HPBook (500 GB) is FAT32 for sure and that seemed to be the only requirement. Still trying ...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 09:33:42 PM by John »

kryton9

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 12:56:53 AM »
Yes, Unetbootin only does single boot of certain distros. For instance ArchLinux won't work right with it.

John, Yumi should do what you want, this is on the page, but at the very bottom:
Quote
YUMI Requirements
Basic Essentials to create a MultiSystem Bootable USB Drive

Fat32 or *NTFS Formatted USB Flash or USB Hard Drive
PC that can boot from USB
Windows XP/Vista/7 or WINE to create the Bootable USB
YUMI-0.1.0.7.exe
Your selection of ISO Files
Potentially Related Portable Linux Posts
SARDU – Multiboot USB Creator (Windows)
XBOOT – Multiboot ISO USB Creator (Windows)

You need to have all your ISO's downloaded first as it asks you after you install your first iso, if you want to add another one.
This way you can add all the distros and utility disks you want.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 01:00:37 AM by kryton9 »

Offline John

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 01:11:54 AM »
Thanks. My goal is to use the 4 TB USB for multiple bootable OS's. I will have another look at YUMI.

kryton9

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 01:53:03 AM »
Which OS and utility disks do you plan to install John?
I am researching some myself.

For utilities this is what I have found to be highly recommended so far based on:
http://lifehacker.com/5984707/five-best-system-rescue-discs
http://thetechhacker.com/2013/03/17/five-best-boot-disks/
http://technorians.com/2013/04/top-5-bootable-antivirus-rescue-disk/

Hiren's BootCD
The Ultimate Boot CD
Backtrack
Kaspersky Rescue Disk
Bitdefender Rescue Disk
AVIRA AntiVir Rescue System
Comodo Rescue Disk
Knoppix
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 01:55:09 AM by kryton9 »

Offline John

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 01:57:48 AM »
I plan to use the USB drive for Linux 64 bit bootable distributions. I will run the 32 bit versions in a VirtualBox and store the images on the USB as well.


Offline AIR

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 04:09:40 PM »
Couldn't you just partition the drive like you want, install one distribution in a partition along with the boot-loader (use grub), and then install the other distributions but DON'T install their boot-loaders when prompted?

Then in the main distro, do a grub-update and it should detect and automatically configure the grub menu for the other distros it has found?


Offline John

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 05:14:51 PM »
This will work with my USB 4 TB drive?

If I want to boot off a USB device now, I have to hit F12 (bios boot option) and select USB. To get between my Installed on the hard disk Ubuntu / Win7, grub gives me the boot options.

kryton9

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 07:04:04 PM »
John, you should also have a key that brings up a boot option without going into Bios each time. If not, you can also set USB as your first boot device in Bios and then your hard disk. This way when a USB with a bootloader is plugged in it will boot from the usb, otherwise it will go to your hard drive.

If you went the partition route as AIR mentioned, what would be a good partition size?  VirtualBox when making virtual disk recommends 8GB, is this a good common size for Linux Distros?

Offline John

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 07:10:13 PM »
What are your thoughts about using as an option?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 07:12:25 PM by John »

kryton9

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Re: 2013 Linux for Newbies
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 09:07:01 PM »
Looks good but when I read the FAQ's, it left me worried a bit.
http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/faq.html

The main one:
Won't see USB keyboards at boot, only after an OS installs.

I am downloading and going to watch this video however just to see how it works:
http://download.plop.at/files/bootmngr/video/demoinstall.wmv