AllBASIC Forum
BASIC Developer & Support Resources => Open Forum => Topic started by: John on January 26, 2014, 09:30:13 PM
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I'm willing to bet that if someone were to create a utility that would take a XP based OS and convert it to 32 bit Linux using Wine for supported Windows applications people would pay for it. It's cheaper than throwing away a usable system and instead giving it a new life.
If Linux 32 bit became a legitimate replacement for XP users not willing to continue on with Microsoft's credit card motivated migration plan, it could also be a new life for software and languages centric to the win32api.
If you were faced with having to upgrade a 32 bit XP PC, would you go to 32 bit Win7 route or entertain a Linux direction? My thoughts are why keep pouring money into out dated but usable hardware and enjoy all the FREE software Linux has to offer. All you would hear going the Windows route is that there is no further pans for upgrading or supporting XP class applications. IMHO
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Hey Mike,
Have you given this any more thought. Your efforts with eOS gave me the impression you might interested. You could call your Linux based XP replacement Doors. ;D
(http://decorasia.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/color-doors.jpg)
Looks like someone else had the same idea. (Windows spoof theme)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_S0f-AWxKVdM/StNCWo-jabI/AAAAAAAALM8/nQ7pdTJ3hto/windows-doors%5B4%5D.jpg)
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Actually, John, there are already a few solutions that disguise Linux desktops as Windows 7 or even 8. The result is however quite crude, far from what we can do with eOS and Mac OS X themes. It seems as if the eOS devs have deliberately done most of the work themselves and invited us mortals only to click a couple buttons to assume our own personal responsibility for hack-intoshing their product. :)
Attached is a screenshot of what a Windows 7 theme may look like under Xubuntu. The screenshot depicts a few FBSL scripts running under Wine.
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That really looks great Mike!
How difficult do you see creating a script/utility to parse through an XP install and build a Linux alternative out of it?
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I can't tell you anything definite at the moment, John.
I'd like to have it all work under Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and Gtk3+ but the problem is Ubuntu's panels and dock are not customizable into a Windows taskbar. Xubuntu and its panel as in the screenshot above pulls over 350MB of dependencies into Ubuntu which isn't good at all.
XP is difficult because there wasn't yet any Gtk3+ at the time when XP theming was popular. Yet I think I will be able to find or tweak something for it too. In the meantime, see how Windows 8 theme looks in Ubuntu's Gtk3+ with Cinnamon. It requires only some 80MB for the panel and runs in a separate login session not affecting the existing native Gnome and Ubuntu session options.
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Amazing!
Maybe the first round of the migration should be focusing on moving pictures, documents, e-mail and browser settings. I think it's important to stress that not all MS applications need to be ported as there are like solutions native to Linux that will do the same thing without a big learning curve. The only Windows application that I was using Wine for was Ultra Edit until they could mature their Linux version. O2 is the last of the Windows apps that I run on a near daily basis under Wine. I can't even imagine ever going back to Windows no matter what they come up with next.
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I can understand that.
Among the four components that you suggest there is just one that doesn't fall into place, and this is MS Office documents. All the others fit in perfectly for an average white-collar user and don't need any learning curve at all. But MS Office docs are compatible with, and manageable by, Libre Office only if they don't have VBA macros embedded. Ask Gerome who I know for 14 years already - apart from database management, MS Office's VBA has been his most used programming language all that time, both professionally and for leisure coding.
As for myself, there are other obstacles that forbid migration. Alongside programming proper, my interests lie in the image processing and 3D domains. This is where Gimp and Blender respectively are the only sensible options available in Linux. Gimp works well for PNG's but almost everything else is done by Photoshop in a much more professional way. And it is backed up by a dozen other professional packages available in Windows. Further, Blender works well but its UI is so horrible, alien and illogical that you simply can't force anybody to migrate to it from Windows' 3DS Max suite, Daz, Bryce, Zbrush, to name but just a few pro SW packages.
Visuals seem to be the prime attraction in computer for a casual man. This is where Linux is still at its early stages. But it is sure catching up even if not so fast and professionally as it would were it more financially motivated and less debauched by the GNU GPL aggressive practices and propaganda.
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My thought is this is for the casual XP user with a 32 bit older PC that just needs a supported OS that can give the old girl a little more life.
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Then I'd say I don't remember anything special in a standard XP installation that's not already part of a basic Ubuntu distro. With the only exception of XP being rigid to unprofessional handling while Linux is saturated with options that act as a hand grenade instead of a banana in the hands of a monkey.
You can tweak XP the Linux way too but for that, you have to be familiar with basic programming or at least scripting and Windows SDK or at least bare WinAPI. Linux is much more susceptible to incompetent user actions than Windows with Mac OS X standing somewhere in between.
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Yep. Freedom can be scary to those incarcerated by false beliefs.
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This is XP Royal Blue under Ubuntu and Cinnamon. I wasn't able to find anything decent for Gtk3 with the default XP theme that's called Luna. All the other sources dated back to Gtk2 which wasn't my target. Neither could I find a full XP icon pack for Linux. The one that's used below has a dozen basic icons only and much more work needs to be done to convert XP's original .ICO files to Linux .PNG's to add to the theme. But I'm too lazy for that kind of "creative" work. ;D
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Mike,
You have made excellent progress and I hope you continue with the project. I think you could build a healthy community around this. Have you thought of opening a web site that is focused on this project?
I think screen shots of familiar activities they would normally preform under XP will reduce the skepticism and reluctance to give it a try. Open Office was recently donated by Oracle to the Apache foundation to manage. I think highlighting office tools on your platform would give it credibility as well.
But I'm too lazy for that kind of "creative" work.
Get the project rolling for real and you can delegate these tasks to talented contributors.
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"Platform" would be too strong a word for this activity, John. There is almost nothing in what's depicted here that can be called my original work barring a few .PNG's and a couple of fixes in the .CSS files that I've added for better metrics. These are all known solutions scattered all over the net in bits and pieces, which is too characteristic of all this linuxoid "modularity" mess.
OTOH gathering it all in one place like a ppa repo with some other handy packages like e.g. a .PDF editor and perhaps even including some major ones like Libre Office or Gimp, and calling it something like XP Migration Center might draw some interest from potential MS Windows defectors.
But I don't think I could spare my time for such a project. Given my plans to start extending FBSL natively to other platforms, I doubt it very much that I would be able to physically cope with such tasks in parallel.
Here's a very nice re-implementation of XP Luna Olive. Its look and feel, and also panel and main menu metrics, are much closer to the original than the above XP Royal Blue theme. Theoretically, its constituent .PNG's can be re-colored in an image editor to XP Luna Blue and XP Luna Silver to provide for a complete set of XP's standard themes. :)
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It just keeps getting better.
I would hate to see this effort and your skills directing it end here. A call for help is in order. Everyone (okay maybe not Microsoft) benefits from this.
Another idea would be to post the project on one of the funding sites. I think you have enough to tell the story and get it funded. Since there is a lot of this that is already done and it's a glue job, the estimated cost should be low enough that getting it funded should be rather easy.
(https://d297h9he240fqh.cloudfront.net/assets/help/style_guide/preview-logo-light-3e3cad8cf36d68e6cc5e92482f99aae1.jpg) (https://www.kickstarter.com/)
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This might be something to look at.
Zorin OS 8 (http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-zorin-os-8-linux-7000027587/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61)
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Yes John, I remember it being mentioned somewhere but you know I'm not too Linux-oriented to surf the OS market constantly. I have my tiny KolibriOS to train myself in assembly from time to time. I'm perfectly satisfied with the newly-acquired eOS Luna (to the extent of abandoning SliTaz) and LTS is all I care for at the moment. :)
In the meantime, here comes XP Luna Blue - as elegant as its Olive mate:
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And this is the beautiful XP Luna Silver to match the other two: :)
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Looks awesome!
I think you found your calling. ;)
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John,
I've been fond of doing this for as long as I can remember. I'm even registered on deviantart.com (http://www.deviantart.com) under the name Deviationist (because all other perverted nicks were already engaged). :)
But I have never yet spent as long as 3 days in a row in order to re-skin elementaryOS to Mac OS X, and 5 days, Ubuntu to Win XP. My deviation (or is it perversion?) seems to aggravate with time. :D
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I was wondering if a Windows application uninstall script could be used as a way to migrate an application to Wine? (file & registry)
Is a .PST the only method to move Outlook related content?
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If you have your mail in Outlook, then PST is what you have.
Google "libpst" for a set of Linux utilities that, among other things, will convert a PST to MBOX.
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Nice library, thanks!
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Windows 7 emulation turned out the toughest of all in the long run. The odd bits and pieces found on the net appeared to be either incompatible with Gtk 3 and/or Cinnamon 2 or ugly and misshaped. I almost gave up but finally was able to stitch two larger pieces (window decoration with controls and Cinnamon panel with menu) together and fix numerous glitches in theme coloring, metrics and placement in Java scripts and .CSS files into a nice-looking Windows 7 Basic emulation. As a side effect, I've also fixed main menu misplacement in the former Windows XP and 8 themes.
Windows 7 Aero will be a real challenge because Cinnamon 2 is incompatible with either Compiz or abandoned Emerald nor does it have built-in support for blurred Aero glass emulation. But who knows, who knows... :)
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This is getting serious. 8)
Is your plan to offer a turn-key Windows look/work alike distribution and maybe some migration utilities to help make the move?
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My minimum goal (as soon as I get the blurred Aero stuff up and running) will be to provide an applet to automate switching between the themes in "the MS Windows Theme Pack for Linux" without resorting to all the relevant options scattered all over the disk. Each theme here requires individual pieces to be toggled and adjusted one by one. Linuxoids are good at ini and option files, sure. But us windozers are accustomed to one big red button that will just do its job in one go leaving the minute tweaks and fine tuning to geeks. :)
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Sounds like a great plan. WWW Windows Without Windows. ;D
But us windozers are accustomed to one big red button that will just do its job
Are you referring to the ReBoot button? :)
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Interestingly, Windows 9 might not include a “Desktop for running legacy Win32 apps,” according to “previous tips,” and will be updated “frequently and regularly” via the Windows Store.
Sure sounds like another nail in the Windows 32 bit desktop coffin to me. :-X
AND
You get to buy bug fixes at the MS store.
I think the word Free is going to be the most misunderstood and abuse word for the next few years.
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John,
Let's not run before the horse. Let's wait at least till the Build 2014 developer conference in April 2014 (http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/windows/3496959/windows-9-release-date-price-features/).
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I'm curious. Who do you think Microsoft cares more about, consumers or business? Going forward, what will be the preferred computing device for the casual appliance user needing e-mail, browsing and occasional productivity software?